The story that Matthew Shepard was murdered for being homosexual turns out to be totally false. He was killed by two other homosexuals he already knew, one of whom was crazy on meth. Read more…
The Yale Daily News via Pajamas Media:
The [Freshman Class Council] has decided to change the design of its shirts after the original design, which was submitted by students and voted on by the freshman class, sparked outcry from members within the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community. …
The original design, which won out over five other entries, displayed an F. Scott Fitzgerald quote in the front — “I think of all Harvard men as sissies” — in bold white letters. The back of the long-sleeved, navy blue T-shirt said “WE AGREE” in capital letters, with “The Game 2009” scrawled in script underneath it.
I won’t be contributing to Yale for a while, and I don’t think I’d want to send my children there. Alas!
Yale University Press has decided not to include controversial Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad in a book about the cartoons and the resulting controversy. Other depictions of Muhammad slated for inclusion in the book, The Cartoons that Shook the World, have also been pulled. The NYT reports:
The book’s author, Jytte Klausen, a Danish-born professor of politics at Brandeis University, in Waltham, Mass., reluctantly accepted Yale University Press’s decision not to publish the cartoons.
John Donatich, the director of Yale University Press, said by telephone that the decision was difficult, but the recommendation to withdraw the images, including the historical ones of Muhammad, was “overwhelming and unanimous.” The cartoons are freely available on the Internet and can be accurately described in words, Mr. Donatich said, so reprinting them could be interpreted easily as gratuitous.
He noted that he had been involved in publishing other controversial books . . . and “I’ve never blinked.” But, he said, “when it came between that and blood on my hands, there was no question.”
This page collects links relevant to Miss Gay Indiana University.
- Past honorees: India Black and
- Indiana University OUT
Shabby to fabby
Colin Dugdale Indiana Daily Student,
Apr. 19, 2007
- The Pace Resolution (Jan. 29 version) and
links to other materials about it.
- “Christians should not be forced to fund a celebration of sin,” blog post by Scott Tibbs
Here’s a comment I posted at Prosblogion:
The distinction between “sexual orientation” and “sexual behavior” is
absolutely crucial, and I was thinking on blogging on this myself, so
I read this with interest. I see that the lawyer quoted above didn’t
understand the distinction. I too would like to know if city
“If I owned a business, I’d discriminate in my hiring practices, quite
reasonably I think, against non-sober alcoholics. The view of those
who are supporting the original petition appears to be (and someone
please correct me if I’m wrong about this) that I would thereby
discriminate against an alcoholic who has been sober for ten years.
Isn’t this just absurd?”
That’s right. I’m sure Christian colleges are happy to hire people
with homosexual orientation who are strongly opposed to homosexual
behavior. The former alcoholic is the best crusader against drink, and
it is common to encounter reformed homosexual pastors who specialize
in work with homosexuals. If anybody finds a case where a strong
advocate of anti-sodomy laws is denied a job because he used to
practice sodomy, please let us know.
In fact, orthodox Christian belief is that everyone has a “sin
orientation”; it is just that some of us control our outward behavior
better than others do. This is really the same as the idea that we
are all potential criminals— murderers and thieves, for example—
but some of us, including most people with college degrees, are
better at restraining themselves in light of their material incentives
and the chance of getting caught.
There is something I don’t think any other commentor has mentioned:
the “legislative history” of anti-discrimination rules. If a judge
were to rule on whether the rule were literally against homosexual
orientation or were against orientation and behavior, he would first
look at the text. The text is clear— it’s just orientation— but
commonly even a fair-minded judge wouldn’t stop there. He would go
on to look at intent and at whether the words had a broader meaning
in the particular context. A big part of that is to look at
legislative history. If *everyone* in the debate over enactment– both
proponents and opponents— talked as if the words included behavior,
then it would be reasonable to read the words that way. If everyone
just talked about orientation, or, even better, proponents explicitly
said that the rule was written purposely to allow discrimination
based on sexual behavior, then the words ought to be read literally.
(If the legislative history is mixed, then it isn’t much use.)
I could be wrong, but I bet most anti-discrimination rules were
enacted by means of arguments based on orientation, not behavior. If
so, it’s not fair to switch the meaning afterwards to include
behavior. An argument such as “we shouldn’t allow discrimination on
the grounds of characteristics a person can’t alter” argues for a
rule against orientation, but implicitly concedes that discrimination
on behavior is okay.
To be sure, forbidding sodomy hurts people who are tempted by sodomy
more than those who are not, and in that sense discriminates on the
basis of orientation. But that is a false sense. It is equivalent to
saying that forbidding sexual harassment, or even rape, discriminates
against men, and so a university should not punish it if they have a
policy against sex discrimination.
In the courts, the “disparate impact” argument is treated in
complicated ways, and in ways that are different depending on the type
of discrimination. Race effects are scrutinized much more closely than
gender effects, for example.
I’ll repeat what earlier comments said: If anyone knows what courts
have said on whether the term “sexual orientation” includes “sexual
behavior” please let us know.
It’s well known that Ronald Reagan as governor of California signed a bill legalizing abortion that was the biggest action increasing abortion before Roe v. Wade. It turns out he was also pro-homomsexual, going out of his way to help defeat a ballot proposition that would have explicitly made it legal to fire schoolteachers for being homosexual. See this pro=Reagan American Spectator article.
I should have been prepared to blog on the Pace Resolution, but I wasn’t, and I have to prepare for a presentation practice with my grad students in two hours. So I’ll revise this post later. For now:
The Bloomington Faculty Council passed the Pace resolution criticizing the business school for inviting a general who (a) said homosexuality was immoral, and (b) enforced the military’s don’t ask/don’t tell policy. The vote was 19 to 15, with many present not voting. I heard on the radio that a motion to table was rejected 14 to 21. The minutes of the February 17 meeting, which transcribe all the speeches of that day, are here. I see that 41 members were present, 3 were absent but had alternates present, and 20 were absent. Thus, of 64 members, 19 voted for the resolution, 15 were against, 10 voters present did not vote, and 20 members were absent.
I see this as a good outcome, if not the best. People are on record as being for or against university departments being able to invite speakers with conservative opinions. I was afraid that someone would make a motion to table the resolution, or just ask to withdraw it, and that professors torn between principle, politics, and timidity would welcome the chance to get out of the situation.
The February 4 meeting tentative BFC minutes have some of the arguments made. My November weblog post has lots more, from the first reading in that month. My Feb. 4 post has the first and second drafts of the resolution.
I should add my own letter to the BFC and the Kelley’s school’s letter later today. They talk about the substance of the resolution.
Here is an excerpt from the tentative draft of the BFC minutes from February 4 on the Pace Resolution.
Neuhaus in First Things:
Beginning in the 1780s and up through the nineteenth century, some
Catholic laity were attracted to the voluntaristic idea of church
membership and church government that they saw in the Protestant
denominations around them. Parishes elected lay “trustees” who took
charge of the temporal affairs of the churches, including the salaries
and, in some cases, the appointment of clergy. This American model, as
it was called, was encouraged by a few bishops such as John England of
Charleston, South Carolina, but Rome and the great majority of bishops
viewed it, correctly, as a form of “congregationalism” incompatible
with the Catholic understanding of the divine constitution of the
Church. Trusteeism was effectively suppressed by the end of the
nineteenth century, being replaced by patterns of what the NRB rightly
calls the “clericalism” that has much to do with the “Crisis in the
Catholic Church in the United States.” Still today, priests, and
priests who become bishops, are trained to take alarm at the slightest
hint of “trusteeism.” That is why, among other things, parish pastors
expend inordinate time and energy on the minutiae of administration
that could be better handled by laypeople. That is why bishops engaged
in the practices of autocracy, secrecy, and cover-up that contributed
so powerfully to the current crisis.
The incidence of reported abuse increased significantly in the 1960s,
peaked in the ’70s, and then decreased in the ’80s and ’90s even more
dramatically than it had increased during the prior two decades.
During the entire period studied, 4.3 percent of diocesan priests were
accused but only 2.7 percent of priests in religious orders.
Of the more than four thousand priests accused of abusing minors, more
than half (56 percent) had only one allegation against them. Three
percent had ten or more allegations. These 149 priests accounted for
almost three thousand (27 percent) of the allegations. Of the 109,694
priests in active ministry during these 52 years,…
a different article says
It would appear that there are many more incidents of priests having a
sexual relationship with an adult woman or man than with minors. Such
relationships are, in many cases, not viewed as a major problem
because they usually do not have legal, financial, or public relations
consequences for the Church, and are therefore deemed to be “nobody’s
Bloomington High School North Counselor Greg Chaffin explains how to create support networks for LGBTQI students within the school environment as well as in the larger community and stresses the importance of such social and familial networks for personal success, health and well-being
From the HT:
Every year, Bloomington High School North counselor Greg Chaffin receives calls, e-mails and letters from parents who are angry about United Students,a group he sponsors for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students and their friends.
Bloomington High School South, which has had a GLBT student group called PROUD for about 10 years, hasn’t experienced the same level of violence, said South counselor Janet Stake. But as at North, name-calling of GLBT students and misuse of the word “gay” is prevalent.
When PROUD was started — and counselors say it was the first high school group of its kind in the state — its conception was controversial. Today, the climate is accepting, and there’s a trend toward more tolerance, Stake said. Same-sex couples even dance together at school dances.
“That they feel comfortable enough to do that, I think that’s a pretty good sign,” Stake said.
Home schooling for high school is looking better all the time.
From a comment at Steve Sailer’s blog:
Researchers with the VA found last summer a gene in most blacks linked to a protective mutation against malaria (the same one that can lead to sickle-cell anemia) that makes HIV infection following exposure significantly more likely. Europeans also had the Black Death and a host of other pandemics fostered by our history as pastoral, agricultural and urban peoples. (The “germs” in Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel”) Immunities arising from those are a part of our genetic heritage. 10-15% of whites in Europe and North America have been found to have a gene that confers a strong resistance to HIV infection, for example.
The Bloomington Faculty Council has been having some discussions
of interest to those concerned about homosexuality and free speech.
All boldfacings below are by me.
Here are excerpts from the resolution (
November 18 text):
WHEREAS in a March 12, 2007 interview with the Chicago Tribune,
Pace said, “I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are
immoral... I do not believe the United States is well served by a
policy that says it is okay to be immoral in any way… As an
individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our
WHEREAS on March 13, 2007, Pace released a statement reading, “In
expressing my support for the current policy, I also offered some
personal opinions about moral conduct. I should have focused more on
my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views.” He
declined to apologize or to retract his statement equating
homosexuality with immorality….
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that although we fully endorse the
concept that speakers representing all viewpoints should be invited to
campus, when speakers representing controversial viewpoints are
invited, effort must be made to facilitate open discussion and the
exchange of ideas. We therefore believe that during General Peter
Pace’s visits to campus this year, the Kelley School should facilitate
opportunities for Gen. Pace to be interviewed by the press and to
appear at forums in which members of the community are welcome and may
ask questions, and to invite a speaker of equivalent stature who holds
contrary views concerning homosexuality. Efforts to date are not
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that it was inappropriate to award Gen. Pace
university honor, the Poling Chair in Business and Government, when
his views on homosexuality are so offensive to university policy and
many members of the university community, without any advance
guarantee that he would participate in an open and meaningful dialogue
about his views.
Brian Horne, Music:
HORNE: Personally I’m bothered by this. I mean there are many details,
you know, with which I sympathize but at the heart of the matter it
seems to me what trying to punish somebody for something they
To me at the heart of the matter, I understand why people would be
offended, but what we’re saying is ‘you have to believe what we
believe or we’re going to make it hard on you.’ That’s not what we
should be doing, and we certainly shouldn’t be saying ‘we’re a
university, we’re open to all, we’re open to diversity, but if you
don’t believe what we believe we’re going to make it hard on you to
come here or to get an honor from us or to do anything else.’
James Biles, Geography:
BILES: … Yes, you know a diversity of views is appreciated, but
think morally and ethically, you know, there’s no requirement to
tolerate intolerance and these views are intolerant. Personally,
like to see him dishonorably discharged from his, you know,
appointment, but I guess that’s not going to happen.
Bryan McCormick, HPER:
MCCORMICK: Well, I’m just curious that this strikes me that we’re
making as a campus body a dictate to that unit without inclusion,
discussion, you know. I would be concerned in my school if I learned
from the BFC something that we are being told we had to do without
even knowing it was coming.
Brian Horne, Music, and Alex Tanford, Law:
HORNE: I’m sorry, one other question and I recognize this is
stretching it quite a bit. Certainly in the School of Music we have
people that are just world renowned musicians all the time some of
which are given titles and some of whom just come and give masters
classes, things like that. We don’t know their views on this issue or
any other, because they were never in such a prominent, you know,
position, but why is it different that it just happens that we know
this issue. This issue is not what drove his appointment or what gave
him this honor. It just happened that his previous appointment called
upon him to answer questions regarding this. If Leonard Slatkin, you
know, the world famous conductor is coming to join our faculty, we
don’t know what he thinks about anything, and we don’t need to know.
TANFORD: I don’t really have a response to your point, but certainly
there are people who are highly distinguished in the music field,
many of them very elderly, if they’re still alive at all, who had an
active association at one point with Nazi Germany, where their views
would be clearly known. And I guess we saw this as the equivalent of
giving one of them a distinguished honor which would be hugely
offensive to the Jewish community or that was the way we saw this.
Lucas Fields, IUSA President, student, and Alex Tanford, Law:
FIELDS: I actually had a chance to speak with the general, and one of
the things I asked him about was his recommendation to authorize force
in Iraq, which he also did as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and I
guess what I’m perhaps concerned about with this body is there a
that’s being drawn, that there are certain things that the faculty are
willing to be concerned about but not others? Is his view on that war,
which is controversial in a different light, something that should
also be addressed? And are we singling something out versus a whole
host of things I think could be found to be controversial on this
TANFORD: We are singling this out. We are the Diversity and
Affirmative Action Committee, concerned about protecting the
minorities who are historically and currently, presently discriminated
against and the gay and lesbian community is number one on that list.
And that’s the reason. This is like race a generation ago.
Patrick Harbison, Music, and
Alex Tanford, Law:
HARBISON: Will the School of Music have to stop programming
TANFORD: Only if – no. (laughter)
HARBISON: I mean you see what
TANFORD: Are you planning on giving Wagner a distinguished
HARBISON: No, but I would say that a performance
the MAC is a fairly distinguished honor.
TANFORD: But that’s the
essence of the distinction. A performance at the MAC is an ordinary
participation in the university process. If it is accompanied by Gwyn
Richards coming out and giving the person a distinguished award, then
it moves into a different level of symbolism and it is that second
level that we are concerned about, not the first.
Daniel Sloat, IUSA Vice President, student:
SLOAT: I just wanted to say first as a Kelley student I felt that
school did a very good job in distancing themselves. I felt that they
were in no way in the wrong. They made very clear that they did not
support his personal beliefs, and most importantly to keep in mind he
was invited to and subsequently awarded for his leadership experience.
He was not brought as a controversial speaker, not as someone who has
a certain view. If that had been the case, then it would certainly
encouraged and, I think, appropriate to bring someone with an
alternative view. So being someone extensive leadership experience,
don’t think it’s fair to put him in the same kind of light that calls
for ‘where’s the other viewpoint?’ because being brought as a person
with leadership experience the other viewpoint would be someone
without leadership experience.
Padraic Kenney, History, and
Alex Tanford, Law:
…KENNEY: …Yeah, I know, but I feel like some of your responses
really come down, you know, to his personal views…
KENNEY: … some rest more on professional and maybe clarifying the
difference between the two…
TANFORD: There is no…
a stand based on one or the other.
TANFORD: He was the one who
attempts to characterize these as merely personal views, and that’s
why to try to put in his version of it and put some balance is why
those statements are in there.
KENNEY: Well then let me draw
to the last line in the fourth paragraph on the first page, “General
Pace’s beliefs regarding homosexuality, which are grounded in his
religious faith, reveal an inherent bias against homosexuality.” Why
are we bringing in his religious faith? I’m looking at the quotes that
are above there and while I don’t doubt that elsewhere in that
interview he talks about his religious faith, he doesn’t in what has
been quoted here. And so now we’re saying ‘well, actually this has to
do with religious faith,’ but maybe they’re excusing, that, you know,
you have to understand this is religious faith or it maybe a
complicating or whatever factor, but I’m not quite sure, you know, how
do you put that in there. That’s essentially saying ‘we are interested
in his beliefs.’
TANFORD: I would say the committee was persuaded
an argument made by some members of the committee that one could make
a case that holding fairly extreme antihomosexual views based on a
particularly narrow interpretation of religion is itself a minority
KENNEY: But how is that relevant here?
therefore needed to be mentioned in terms of the balance since we’re
the Diversity and Affirmative Action Committee and that we are
concerned about religious discrimination as much as we are about
discrimination against homosexuality.
Nick Clark, GPSO – Political Science, graduate student:
CLARK:… it’s a discussion I’ve been a part of in several different
committees on how to best recruit minorities to come here and increase
the diversity of the campus and I have to think that this is relevant
to that, in that if we include minorities that we want to recruit as
gay and lesbian students, the fact that we bestow honors on someone
that makes these statements, whether they’re right, whether they’re
wrong, whether it’s the place of the Faculty Council or the university
to take positions on it, but that we’re bestowing honors on it from a
very pragmatic point of view I would think that that could deter
certain gay and lesbian students from attending this university which
is the exact opposite of what the campus seems to want to do in its
recruiting initiatives. And I think that’s got to be at least, you
know, minimally relevant to an issue like this.
Herbert Terry, BFC President, Telecommunications:
TERRY: Okay, I wasn’t on the (inaudible) subcommittee, but I hope you
will consult with the faculty governance body of the School of
Business. When we take this up again I would like to know what role
they played in it, if any, and what their recommendations to the Dean
were, what they think of it. The second thing is borrowing from my
experience in telecommunications, the Federal Communications
Commission for a long time tried to enforce a kind of a fairness
doctrine requiring that opposing views on controversial issues be
presented by broadcasters. It eventually concluded that that
The BFC membership list is
here in case you’d like to check which professors and students
vote on this.
Americans interviewed in Gallup’s 2008 Values and Beliefs poll are
evenly divided over the morality of homosexual relations, with 48%
considering them morally acceptable and 48% saying they are morally
The BFC will not be voting on the resolution on January 20, since the committee is trying to redraft it. Presumably it will come up in the February meeting.
There is indeed an issue on which citizens split almost evenly yet the leaders of both parties adopt identical lockstep positions: the legality of homosexual acts. That’s my answer to a question of Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald:
Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where (a) citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet (b) the leaders of both parties adopt identical lockstep positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice?
The split in favor of sodomy laws is 40-55 in the latest Gallup poll, as shown in the chart here, down from 49-46 in 2003. Support for sodomy laws has stayed around 40% since 1977. Opposition has bounced around a lot, from 43% in 1977 to 57% in 1986, back to around 42% in 1997, up to 60% in early 2003, down to 46% a few months later, and up to 55% now. But clearly voters are divided. I don’t hear any Democratic or Republican politicians calling for the return of sodomy laws, though (and it isn’t just the Supreme Court’s reversing itself on the issue; plenty of politicians oppose abortion).
Here’s more from Sullivan and Greenwald, for reference:
Andrew Sullivan, quoting Greenwald:
Leave aside the usual huffing and puffing. Can you answer this question for me:
Is there any other significant issue in American political life, besides Israel, where (a) citizens split almost evenly in their views, yet (b) the leaders of both parties adopt identical lockstep positions which leave half of the citizenry with no real voice? More notably still, is there any other position, besides Israel, where (a) a party’s voters overwhelmingly embrace one position (Israel should not have attacked Gaza) but (b) that party’s leadership unanimously embraces the exact opposite position (Israel was absolutely right to attack Gaza and the U.S. must support Israel unequivocally)? Does that happen with any other issue?
Not only does Rasmussen find that Americans generally “are closely divided over whether the Jewish state should be taking military action against militants in the Gaza Strip” (44-41%, with 15% undecided), but Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the Israeli offensive — by a 24-point margin (31-55%). By stark constrast, Republicans, as one would expect (in light of their history of supporting virtually any proposed attack on Arabs and Muslims), overwhelmingly support the Israeli bombing campaign (62-27%).
This is a collection of some old weblog posts related to the 2003 controversy. It isn’t complete, I think, and doesn’t even have the most interesting parts, which I think I did blog about the next year. Someday I’ve got to organize my old posts.
I’ll add a link to the September 16, 2003 Bloomington Faculty Council minutes, which include the attack on me by Chancellor Brehm.
Tuesday, August 26, 2003: HOMOSEXUALS AND HINDUS AS TEACHERS
Professor Volokh posts the good question of why Christians object to homosexuals as schoolteachers when they do not object to Hindus, even though idolatry is the greater sin. This isn’t too hard to answer, though. Some points:
- Many Christians do object to Hindus as schoolteachers, in the same way as they object to atheists, Mormons, and so forth as teachers. That is why there are Roman Catholic and evangelical private schools.
- Volokh tries to link this to limitation of government privileges. But this is not a matter of privilege. If homosexuality is to be legal, I have never heard anybody suggest that homosexuals should not be corporate directors, lawyers, or CEO’s. But certain jobs, not necessarily prestigious or well-paid ones, are moral exemplars. These include teachers, pastors, and elected officials.
- A second reason not to hire homosexuals as teachers is that it puts the fox into the chickencoop. Male homosexuals, at least, like boys and are generally promiscuous. They should not be given the opportunity to satisfy their desires. Somewhat related is a reason not to hire a homosexual as a doctor even though you would hire him as a lawyer: you don’t mind if your lawyer has a venereal disease such as HIV or hepatitis, but you do mind if your doctor is in a class of people among whom such diseases are common.
- On this last point, note that state laws, though differing, often give more publicity to child molesting criminal records than to records of crimes such as murder which have longer prison terms. This is not because child molesting is more immoral, though it might be, but because it is important that child molesters not be hired into certain jobs.
- It is an interesting question in general of what kind of moral character a schoolteacher should be have. I think it does matter. Before I hired someone who had been a tax cheat, an adulterer, a robber, a drug user, or a stripper I would want to ask questions, and I would not want to hire someone who was currently in those categories.
That, in fact, raises a good question for someone who says he does not care about a teacher’s moral character. If you are interviewing someone for a job as a teacher, and the person admits that he earns a lot from burglary and intends to keep doing it, but has evidence to assure you that he will not get caught, would you hire him anyway?
That’s enough on that particular point. I’ll go to a related point below, though, and cite Thomas Aquinas.
Eugene Volokh has a new post on the homosexuals-and-Hindus as schoolteachers issue. This is focussed just on the argument that homosexuals are risky as teachers because they are more likely to molest their students (as opposed to the moral examplar argument, or the parental preference argument). Professor Volokh says,
This allegation that male homosexuals are unusually likely to engage in sex crimes against children is a pretty serious charge, and it seems to me that such serious charges ought to be supported by some serious evidence (and not just by anecdotes), especially if they are to be made the basis of government decisions that may hurt the completely law-abiding. Prof. Rasmusen unfortunately didn’t cite any such evidence — can anyone point me to it? Again, I’m asking for specific pointers to specific evidence, and not just news stories about a few incidents of molestation, or general assumptions about what “everyone knows.”
I might note that Professor Volokh is a polite person, and asked me in an email if I had any evidence before he wrote his post, and I didn’t have any. (In fact, a post by Iain Murray that he later linked to says that there is no really good statistical evidence either way. If I come across any, I’ll post on it.) Why do I believe it, then? I actually think that it’s in the category of “what everyone knows”, a category useful as a starting point for discussions if everybody really does believe it (see the Intro to Nozick’s Philosophical Investigations for a nice angle on that idea). But if someone doesn’t believe it, then we do have to go on to reasons why we believe that male homosexuals are more likely than male heterosexuals to molest children.
Let’s start with a similar question: why do I think a man is more likely than a woman to sexually molest a child (someone under the age of 18)? It’s not because of scientific studies. Rather, it’s through what I’ve learned through life from various sources, including personal experience, newspapers, and literature, about how women and men behave. The belief I hold is strong enough that I’d base behavior on it: I would take it into account, for example, in hiring a nanny for my children.
A large part of my belief relies on the idea that men are more tempted by children than women are. Women are attracted to older men, and are also less aggressive and more faithful to their spouses, if they have them (There is numerical evidence on these points, by the way, but it didn’t take a 20th century sociologist to make the discoveries.)
How about homosexual males (I don’t have much idea about lesbians.) I think they are attracted to people under age 18 more than heterosexual males are I seem to remember Robert Heinlein saying that age at which a woman’s beauty peaks is 22. Of course, the later Heinlein was odd about sex, but 22 sounds reasonable. Men are attracted to a young but physically mature woman. But what is the ideal for homosexual men? For some it is certainly the mature, broad- shouldered, hairy 25-year-old. But my impression is that the 16-year-old beardless boy would attract more votes. And the 16- year-old beardless boy is not so different from an 8-year-old beardless boy as the 16- year-old girl is from the 8-year-old girl, so we should expect homosexuals to be far more tempted by 8- year-olds than heterosexuals are. I could check this by looking up a large enough sample of pornography—but I’d rather not. It is noteworthy that in ancient Greece, pederasty was actually the common form of homosexuality. The kind of sodomy they accepted was exactly the kind we still make illegal; the kind they would have thought strange (two middle-aged men) is the kind we have made legal. It is also noteworthy that there exists a North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) (which, oddly enough, has on its front page, “The War in Iraq is Still Wrong!”) Is there any equivalent demand by heterosexuals for legal access to girls?
This is not statistical evidence, and perhaps not serious evidence, but public policy cannot be based on statistical evidence alone. See my August 25 post on post on William James’s “The Will to Believe.” Often—perhaps most often— we have to make policy without having a scientific consensus (at least, not one backed up by numbers). We have to either let homosexuals be teachers or not. If the numbers are inconclusive, we can’t just say, “We’ll postpone the decision till more studies are done.” In the meantime, we are either hiring homosexual teachers or not, so we have made a decision.
An example I had a discussion with John Donahue about is right-to-carry gun laws. Professor Donahue is part of a statistical literature (of whom John Lott is the best- known author) that tries to measure whether such laws increase crime, decrease crime, or leave it the same. Although I like both Johns, and although they come to opposite conclusions from the same data (a fact of much recent controversy), I disagree with both of them. I’m skeptical that the data really is good enough to allow for a conclusive result. It is very hard to statistically measure the magnitude of the effect on robbery rates even of things like the number of young men and the length of prison terms that we are sure have an influence in a certain direction. Crime is hard to measure, there are lags to the effect of the variables, and there are a lot of things that affect crime simultaneously, some of which we can’t measure at all (”strength of consciences”). It ’s worth doing the research– I’ve worked on crime data myself in trying to look at < href= "http://Pacioli.bus.indiana.edu/erasmuse/published/Rasmusen_96JLE.stig ma.pdf"> stigma– but the numbers are not necessarily the best thing upon which to base policy. Rather, we use our theories and qualitative impressions. And this is one of James’s “forced decisions”— we either have to allow people to carry concealed weapons or not.
Similarly, we must decide whether to allow homosexuals to be priests, scout leaders, and schoolteachers without good regression studies of whether they are more likely than heterosexuals to go after the youngsters under their care. But enough on that subject for now.
I briefly moved this web-log to Geocities because some people at Indiana University disapprove of the views expressed in it. Officially, at least, that has now been worked out. I’ll comment at length in a day or two, after I finish some work on the game theory book I’m teaching from. For now, the Indiana Daily Student and Bloomington Herald-Times and, not as fully, the Indianapolis Star
I would like to comment on one distortion I heard on talk radio yesterday from the various people condemning me: that there is no evidence of the ill effects of homosexuality. What I said in my web-log was that I did not have such evidence at hand, and rather than hurry out and research it, I’d wait till I happened to see it float by. Thus, I said, “I have no evidence that homosexuals are child molesters more often than normal people” in the same way as I would also say, “I have no evidence that men are child molesters more often than women” (as I did say in the web-log) or “I have no evidence that smoking causes cancer” or “I have no evidence that the earth is more than 5000 years old.” Just because I don’t have it at hand doesn’t mean the evidence isn’t there. And even if exhaustive search doesn’t find any evidence that claim X is true, it might at the same time be true that the exhaustive search did not find any evidence that claim X was *not* true. See my August 25 post on philosopher William James’s observations on this. As Aristotle says in Book I of the Ethics:
… it is the mark of an educated man to look for precision in each class of things just so far as the nature of the subject admits; it is evidently equally foolish to accept probable reasoning from a mathematician and to demand from a rhetorician scientific proofs.
Hard evidence is just hard to come by on some topics, and sexuality is one of them.
September 9, 2003: &Phi. LESSONS OF THE WEB-LOG CONTROVERSY.
Here is what happened.
For some months, I have kept a web-log, with few readers, as a sort of commonplace book. The Volokh Conspiracy raised the interesting question of why people object to homosexuals as schoolteachers, but not Hindus, since idolatry is a greater sin than sodomy. I replied with some arguments distinguishing Hindus from homosexuals, and The Volokh Conspiracy linked to my reply and answered it. My guess is that someone at IU read the Volokh Conspiracy, followed to my web-log, and complained to friends at IU, who circulated the news of my web-log by email.
Soon the Dean’s Office at my business school was getting lots of complaints about my web-log. The Dean asked me to meet him late on a Thursday afternoon to talk about it. We talked, and I offered to move my web-log off the IU computers, and to keep fairly tight-lipped, until the Dean had time to reflect and to check with the University about whether my web-log was in violation of IU policy. He checked, learned that my web-log did not violate IU policy, and called me back the next day to say that I could move my web-log back, which I did.
The student newspaper got hold of the story, and that (I imagine) alerted the local newspaper, the Associated Press, and a local radio talk show. The blogworld also learned about it. The University didn’t actually shut me down, so the story isn’t as big as it might have been. I haven’t heard of any IU faculty members saying publicly I should be shut down (the student newspaper story “Faculty react to Web log decision” doesn’t actually quote any faculty, just staff). If I remember correctly (it’s hard because of the volume) I haven’t gotten any emails from faculty members saying so (except perhaps one person whose signature said “PhD” but not “Professor”). There are many people calling for me to be shut down, but they are students or staff members. The IU Vice President for Student Development and Diversity wrote a student newspaper op- ed, “A teachable moment for us all,” that made the good point that controversies like these are important to teach students the value of free discussion and so forth.
What can we learn from this?
- There are lots of people around who don’t believe in freedom of speech, and, in fact, don’t seem to even understand why it might be valuable. They see things in terms of power.
- It is a good idea to give administrators some breathing space. When hit with a lot of people complaining, they need some time to think. (This feeling should be familiar to those of us who grade midterms.) I could have refused to voluntarily move my web- log the first day, gone to the Web, and caused a big stink. But that would have hurt my university, and would, in fact, have created a false impression. IU *did* do the right thing, the process didn’t even take very long, and it didn’t take any pressure from me or outsiders. On the other hand, if IU had decided, after due deliberation, to shut me down, I would still have the opportunity to argue my case before them and complain to the world.
In light of this, I think I made a mistake last spring when the Indiana Association of Scholars, of which I am a director, issued a press release criticizing a memo the dean of the law school had issued in the Dillon stolen flyers incident. Her memo was not the right response to the situation, but she was brand-new in the position of dean, she issued the memo in a hurry, and only a student, not faculty members, had told her directly that it was the wrong response. That is important because students, being young, are usually not good at explaining such things. One of us should have talked with her first, and we should have issued our press release only if she didn’t remedy the situation. But the IAS is a young organization, it was the busy end of the semester, and so we rushed things.
- It’s important to be willing to put up with disapproval. The biggest obstacle to conservatives voicing their opinions is not losing their jobs, death threats, or pistol whippings: it’s just the natural human distaste for doing something that other people dislike. This is quite interesting: why should I care if Mr. X thinks I am evil if I think Mr. X is wrong on that and everything else? Yet I do, to some extent. This has to be resisted. Here, again, it’s useful to have teaching experience. Any large required undergraduate or MBA course in economics is going to have a few students who think the professor is unjust and capricious in his grading. Denial of special requests will also produce sour feelings, as I remember from the semester when my final exam was scheduled by the university for the last day of exam week. When I turned down the requests of students to take the exam at a special early time, the students didn’t complain to me, but I got two long phone calls from irate parents. A mother said I had no heart and called me names in Yiddish. A father informed me that he was a lawyer, that it would be really expensive to change his child’s airplane tickets, and, after failing to goad me into saying something he could use against me in talking to my chairman or dean, said that I was clearly such a cold person that at least he didn’t have to fear that I would retaliate against his daughter. So as a professor I’m used to unreasonable abuse.
- A lot of people don’t understand the idea of a web-log. They confuse web- logs with research papers. No– a web-log can (but need not be) more reliable than a newspaper, because it can have multiple cites and can have corrections more easiliy, but by their nature, web-logs are not going to be as reliable as scholarly articles. They don’t get multiple drafts, they are not presented at seminars for criticism, referees don’t suggest improvements, and they aren’t screened by journal editors. Think of a web-log as being more like an intelligent conversation taking place in a good library.
- There are lots of people around whose idea of a convincing argument is “I’m offended,” and whose idea of witty repartee is “You’re stupid!”. This is something scholars tend to forget, except when grading certain kinds of student essays.
&Psi. SCIENCE AND OPINION. I’m slowly working my way through my emails. (Intermittent outages of my home internet connection are no help.) I’ve gotten several of the following sort:
- Person X says he is deeply offended by my saying that homosexuals are more likely to be child molesters.
- Person X also says that he thinks I should have presented some evidence before I said such a thing. (Sometimes this is said to be what a good scholar and scientist would do.)
- Person X does not mention any evidence himself.
Since there are several such emails, there are probably more readers like them out there, and I thought I’d post the basic contradiction in position 1-2-3 here in the web-log. It is this:
If Person X has no evidence on the subject himself, why is he deeply offended? Part 2 of his email says that a person should refrain from having an opinion until he has evidence, and so should certainly refrain from having a strong opinion. So by his own criteria, Person X has no right to have an opinion on the subject.
As I explained in detail in earlier web-log postings, I think Part 2 is wrong, so what I’m doing here is just exposing an internal inconsistency of Person X. If anybody wants to use just Part 1 and Part 3, they’re not inconsistent. Or, if they have just Part 1 and Part 2, and do give me some evidence, then they’re not inconsistent either (they’re still wrong on Part 2, but they’re not internally inconsistent) .
[ permalink, http://php.indiana.edu/~erasmuse/w/03.09.13b.htm ]
&Omega. Homosexuality and Pedophilia Evidence. I thank E.R. (not myself!), E.N., M.M., and J.O, for the following links on child molestation and homosexuality, which take various positions on the issue. (If you don’t mind having your full name mentioned, just let me know and I’ll update this.) I haven’t really looked at them yet, but I will one of these days, and will try to summarize them then. For now, though, readers might like to look at them directly. I also list the old Iain Murray post that responded to my initial exchange with Professor Volokh.
- Iain Murray, “Elusive Statistics,”
- “Health and Homosexuality”
- Jerrold Polansky, “FACT SHEET ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND CHILD ABUSE”
- Department of Health and Human Services website for the Administration for Children and Families
- “Child Sexual Abuse: The Facts”
- Timothy Dailey, “Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse”
- Leslie Carbone on Boy Scouts & Catholic Church on National Review Online
- “Gay Mental Health”
- Paul Cameron, “Child Molestation and Homosexuality”
Note that all the items in this list are directed to the narrow question of child molestation. None of them applies to the bigger issues, which I think are the really important ones, of (a) whether homosexuality is immoral, and (b) whether it is bad to have immoral people as teachers because they are bad role models. If the child molestation issue were the only one, I think we’d see a lot of people who would prefer female homosexual teachers to male heterosexual ones, which I doubt is the case. But the molestation issue is still an interesting and relevant one.
September 16-17, 2003. &Psi. THE CHANCELLOR AND MY WEB-LOG: NEWS.
&Psi. THE CHANCELLOR AND MY WEB-LOG. Well, things are heating up again. I’m a member of the Bloomington Faculty Council, the IU-Bloomington faculty senate, and we met at 3:30 today for the first time this semester. I wondered whether any of the faculty would mention my web-log. None did– except the Chancellor, Sharon Brehm. She chairs the BFC, and she addressed the web-log controversy right at the start of the meeting. I wasn’t prepared, I’m afraid, since it wasn’t on the agenda. Here’s the Chancellor’s statement. To be fair, I want to quote it in full.
I was first notified about the existence of Professor Rasmusen’s website at 4:44 pm on Thursday, September 4. The 12 days that followed have certainly been extremely difficult ones for our campus. I’d like to share with you today my perspective on this matter.
First, as I have done in every previous statement I have made about this issue, I want to emphasize that I deplore many of the statements posted on the website.
For example, Professor Rasmusen asserts that “homosexuals” (gender unspecified) should not be hired in jobs that function as “moral exemplars,” such as “teachers, pastors, and elected officials.” He also states, as a “second reason not to hire homosexuals as teachers,” that “male homosexuals, at least, like boys and are generally promiscuous.” Professor Rasmusen acknowledges that he has no evidence to support his conclusions, which are, instead, drawn from “the category of `what everyone knows.’”
This is deeply offensive, hurtful, and very harmful stereotyping, in which characteristics of individuals are applied to a large group of people who members, like all people, differ from one another on the exceedingly large number of characteristics that make up a human being. Logically, it is the same as drawing the conclusion that all men are six feet tall.
Such stereotyping is completely at odds with Indiana University’s commitment to inclusion and its respect for diversity as clearly stated in its equal opportunity/affirmative action policy: “Indiana University prohibits discrimination based on arbitrary considerations of such characteristics as age, color, disability, ethnicity, gender, marital status, national origin, race, religion, sexual orientation, or veteran status.”
This personal home page service is designed to provide Indiana University faculty, staff, and students with an opportunity to present themselves and their personal interests and opinions, as well as to learn and exercise web development techniques and accomplish class assignments in various disciplines. Indiana University does NOT review the content of personal web pages maintained by individuals using this service except in response to a complaint that the pages contain material that violates the law or University policy. The University accepts no responsibility for the content of personal home pages.
Free expression of ideas is a central value within the academy. Some materials displayed on pages in this service may be objectionable or offensive to some visitors, but that does not necessarily mean that the material is illegal or that it violates Indiana University policy. Absent a violation of law or University policy, the University will not take action with respect to material on a personal home page.
The postings on this website have created the difficult challenge of affirming the right to speak, even when we deplore the speech itself. As hard as this is, it is the only way to maintain our liberty. It’s easy to defend freedom of speech when we agree with or don’t care about the speech itself. Only when the speech offends us, do we realize the strength and courage of those who wrote the first amendment and all those after them who have affirmed and upheld it.
There is, however, another more general issue that President Daleke [President of the Bloomington Faculty Council–ER] and I have discussed at some length. We agree that it would be useful to ask the UFC [University Faculty Council–ER] to review the current policies, practices, guidelines, costs, and benefits of “Mypage,” the UITS service for personal Web pages. It seems to us that, as a community of scholars and students, it is crucial to think through the role of these personal web pages in our communal and intellectual life.
I’d like to close with a quote that I found while working on this statement for this meeting: But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty 1859
After the Chancellor’s statement, I raised my hand right away, but all I did was ask if the statement was available on the Web. She said no, but that she’d give me a copy after the meeting, which she did. Nobody else commented, except to ask if the webpage policy ought to be considered by the *Bloomington* Faculty Council rather than the *University* Faculty Council (for all 8 campuses). Good reasons were mentioned, but not what is perhaps the best one: that if it went through the BFC it would go through the Technology committee, of which a certain Eric Rasmusen is a member.
The meeting continued for an hour more, and after a short break we broke up into committees. We on the Tech committee had a very productive hour figuring out what topics we might address this year (e.g., spam, music downloads, central computer administrators making policy without the faculty input they used to request). The reporter for the local newspaper asked me for my response to the Chancellor’s statement, but since he had a 6:30 deadline, I don’t know what he will use from my few comments at 4:30 and my hurried email at 6:15 after I got home and before my 6:30 engagement.
Chancellor Brehm ought not, I think, to have blindsided me like that. She knows me a little, but not well enough to predict that I wouldn’t respond angrily, which would have been unpleasant and would have so distracted everyone that we wouldn’t have paid attention to the more mundate topics of the rest of the meeting. Strategic planning, merging Informatics with Computer Science, and transfer credit policy can’t compete very well with attacks on faculty members. Also, it’s a good idea to try to coordinate statements on controversial subjects. If she’d shown me the statement a few hours in advance, I would have told her what I thought was weak in it then, instead of putting in my web-log of the world to see, as I do below. That way, she could have taken out the weak parts, and I’d be saved the effort of writing this up.
September 17 update. The local paper, the Herald-Times, didn’t get my written comments in time, but they did print the address of this web-log, which was nice since anyone interested can thereby get my response in detail. That article is “Brehm condemns professor’s opinions/IU chancellor addresses Bloomington Faculty Council”. The article in the student newspaper is “Faculty asked to review Web policies/ Brehm addresses business professor’s controversial site”.
September 17 evening update. The Herald-Times article, “Brehm condemns professor’s opinions/IU chancellor addresses Bloomington Faculty Council”, did make one mistake (or maybe I mis-spoke– the reporter and I had a rather rushed conversation). It says,
Rasmusen said later Tuesday that Brehm’s position that it’s acceptable for homosexuals to be teachers, pastors and elected officials is outside the mainstream. “It is fine if that’s her position, but she should realize it is a controversial one,” he said.
I do not think Brehm’s position is outside the mainstream, especially in Bloomington, where it may even be the most common position. It is nonetheless a controversial one. This is the same kind of issue as gun control or abortion, where an opinion on either side is going to be controversial. It would be noteworthy if a university chancellor took a public stand on any of the three issues of whether homosexuals should be schoolteachers (or pastors), whether abortion should be legal, and whether people should be allowed to own handguns.
&Chi. THE CHANCELLOR AND MY WEB-LOG: ANALYSIS. How *do* I respond? I enjoyed working last spring with Chancellor Brehm on the Faculty Council’s Iraq resolution, and expect to work well with her again. But…
This is misleading. She didn’t cite any evidence either, for what is apparently her strongly held belief that homosexuals are no more likely than heterosexuals to molest children. It seems that she, like me, thinks she has enough general background knowledge to assert an opinion on the subject. That is fine, but she shouldn’t criticize me for doing the same. As I’ve said before in this web-log, I’ll come back to the subject one of these days, when the pressure lets up and I have time to do it well. Will she? My opinion was in the casual setting of a web-log; hers was a formal statement read as she chaired a meeting. I have no staff to do research for me (though thank you readers on both sides of the issue for your contributions); she does have a staff. So shall we see her evidence soon?
deeply offensive, hurtful, and very harmful stereotyping, in which characteristics of individuals are applied to a large group of people who members, like all people, differ from one another on the exceedingly large number of characteristics that make up a human being. Logically, it is the same as drawing the conclusion that all men are six feet tall.
Is my claim logically the same as claiming that all men are six feet tall? No. Rather, it is logically the same as claiming that men are taller than women. Such a claim is a generalization, and most generalizations are false for some members of the set being described. Some men are shorter than some women, but that does not detract from the usefulness of the generalization. Without generalizations of this kind not just science but the language of our daily life would be crippled.
Consider, for example, the Chancellor’s statement later in the meeting that one of her priorities in this budget-strapped year is to spend extra money on programming and financial aid to induce more minority students to come to IU. Isn’t that a generalization about those students? Can’t we get some of them without extra money? We can, but in general she is correct that we will have to take money away from something else to do it. (And that may be problematic: note the IU non- discrimination policy she quoted in her web-log statement.)
(4) Chancellor Brehm deplored my statement that homosexuals should not be hired for jobs that function as moral exemplars, such as teachers, pastors, and elected officials. Her stance is more interesting than it first appears. It seems to say that she strongly believes that it is fine for homosexuals to be teachers, pastors, and elected officials.
She can, of course, state that as her personal opinion, just as I can, and she can even use her position as Chancellor as a “bully pulpit” from which to state it. Some might say that a Chancellor should stick to bland statements, but I disagree. I do think that a Chancellor ought to serve as one of the state’s leaders and should not refrain from voicing strong political opinions. I wonder, though, if she realizes that this particular opinion is controversial. Saying that it is deplorable for someone to argue that homosexuals should not be teachers, pastors, or elected officials goes well beyond saying that homosexuality should be tolerated, or even that the university should extend marital benefits to them. Rather, it is saying that there is nothing immoral about homosexuality and that anyone who believes otherwise is deeply wrong. Many would disagree with her opinion on this, and with the absolute confidence with which she holds that moral belief. I suppose, now that I think about it, that I might say it is deplorable that so many people believe sodomy is moral, but would hesitate more than she seems to have done. A lot of people I respect do believe that sodomy is moral, so even though I think they’re wrong, I’m reluctant to condemn them any more than I condemn people who voted for Al Gore for President.
Indiana University as a university, of course, has no official position on the subject. The Bloomington Faculty Council has never passed a resolution saying that it is okay for pastors and teachers to be homosexuals, nor is this in any administrative polices that I know of. We do have the non- discrimination policy quoted by Chancellor Brehm, but that only implies it is okay for university professors, counsellors, janitors, etc. to be homosexual, not people in jobs outside of the university.
I’m tired of people saying, for rhetorical effect, that Professor Rasmusen has no evidence to support his claim that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children. You’ll find detailed discussion in earlier posts on why I made the claim. For now, though, it might make some people happy to see something that Professor Steven Willing at our well- regarded medical school cc’d me on from a couple of emails to Chancellor Brehm this morning:
“Of 170 pedophiles, 60 [40%] were homosexual, 45 [26%] were bisexual, 34% heterosexual.” [With a population prevalence of 2.8%, this indicates that homosexuals are 14 times more likely to be pedophiles]. Bogaert AF. Bezeau S. Kuban M. Blanchard R. Pedophilia, sexual orientation, and birth order. Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 106(2):331-5, 1997 May
“Heterosexual child molestations cases outnumber homosexual by eleven to one, but heterosexual males outnumber homosexual by 36 to 1. Although most cases of molestation are by heterosexuals due to their greater numbers, a homosexual male is over three times more likely to molest a child.” Freund K. Watson RJ. The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study. Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. 18(1):34-43, 1992 Spring.
Dr. Willing, of course, has looked at a lot more than just those two articles. He says,
Every published investigation, except perhaps one (the deeply flawed study in Pediatrics 1994) show a much higher representation of homosexuals and bisexuals among convicted child molesters than their percentage of the general population. Even homosexual advocates know this. They therefore rely on semantic chicanery to redefine all offenders as “not really” homosexual.
Is this conclusive? No. I think it’s correct, but I haven’t looked directly at either article or at the material other people have sent me, so I don’t know whether the studies were well done or not. On a topic like this one, it isn’t enough for someone to say, “My position is correct, because Professor X at Bigname University says so and I can quote from two published articles.” First, numerical studies of the subject are tricky enough to do that you need to see how the articles came to their conclusions. Second, a lot of junk gets published, and someone outside the field doesn’t know which journals are really good. Third, there is a lot of dishonesty out there, so it is riskier to accept supposedly scientific claims about homosexuality than about how to price call options or what the rate of GNP growth in the 1920’s really was. So even though the evidence above supports my position, I shouldn’t close my mind on the subject and won’t.
A name=”september20″> September 20, 2003. &Omega.
From Toronto, writing between sessions of the American Law and Economics Association conference, I see that Mr. Bauder, the IU Coordinator, made a point of telling our student newspaper that the point of yesterday’s rally at the business school induction ceremony wasn’t to go after Eric Rasmusen. Good! I’m thankful, and so will not mention the affair any further here.
October 30, 2003. ר Chancellor Brehm Resigns.
Chancellor Brehm, who so publicly deplored this web-log a month ago, has resigned as Chancellor, effective December 31, not for an outside job, but just remaining in some kind of advisory position as described in the press release. Rumor has it that the Trustees decided this last spring, and that the previous chancellor, Professor Gros-Louis, will replace her. The former Law School Dean, Professor Aman, is another contender. We’ll see.
November 3, 2003. ת Weblog Controversy–Chronicle of Higher Education.
My web-log has made it to the front page of the November 7 Chronicle of Higher Education. I’m glad the photos turned out okay.
Advance Indiana has useful posts on the 2007 same-sex marriage legislation in Indiana.
I wonder what the truth is about the danger of getting AIDS from such things as sneezes or toilet seats. The danger can’t be too great, or we would come across numerous cases where that method of transmission could be proved. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the claims that no such cases occur. Would someone making that claim really be willing to share a handkerchief with someone in the last stages of AIDS? In the scientific literature, look carefully for language such as “No cases have been found…” or “No cases have been proved…”, as opposed to “It is impossible to have transmission by …”. I haven’t heard of any experiments on the subject. What would be useful would be to see if an animal can be infected without direct contact with an infected animal. Animals cannot be infected with the same HIV virus as humans, but even moderate similarity in the viruses would tell us something.
It isn’t widely known that the HIV virus has a remarkable ability to survive outside of a human body. It can even survive drying! This implies, doesn’t it, that it must be common for measurable amounts of HIV virus to be transmitted enviromentally. Since we don’t see cases of that, it must be that the virus can’t get where it needs to go in the body (e.g., maybe it can’t get through the nasal membrane) or those amounts are not big enough to survive initial attack by the immune system, or even to stimulate measurable immune reactions.
Here are some notes from a couple of articles.
“Cell-free and cell-associated human immunodeficiency virus cultures suspended in 10% serum remained infectious for several weeks at room temperature. The stability was further increased when cell-associated virus was suspended in neat serum. When dried onto a glass coverslip, virus remained infectious for several days, although cell-associated virus lost infectivity more rapidly than cell-free virus.”
The article says this ability to survive is similar to that of other viruses that have lipid envelopes around them.
JOURNAL OF CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY, Feb. 1994, P. 571-574, Survival of Human Immunodeficiency Virus in Suspension and Dried onto Surfaces J. vAN BUEREN,* R. A. SIMPSON,t P. JACOBS, AND B. D. COOKSON Vol. 32, No. 2.
I found a good comparison of different germs’ survival times. The article itself is about accidental jabs from needles.
30-50% of Australian drug users have been exposed to hepatitis B (as shown by having antibodies against it), but only 1-2% are infected. The hepatitis B virus can survive for a week if dried. It can be frozen and thawed 8 times and the DNA is still intact. Even a minute amount of infected blood can transmit the disease, since it has high concentrations and is virulent. It is often transmistted “environmentally”– that is, from surfaces contaminated by body fluids or through the air.
50-60% of Australian drug users are infected with Hepatitis C. It survives for 2 days dried.
1% of Australian drug users are infected with HIV. THat is remarkably low– aren’t rates for American homosexuals who frequent homosexual venues more like 20%?
Blood-borne viruses and their survival in the environment: is public concern about community needlestick exposures justified? Thompson, Boughton and Dore. 2003 VOL . 27 NO. 6 AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH.
From Roeber’s article about German Jews in early America:
For Jews, the commands given to Noah and his sons after their rescue from the deluge were revealed truth and laid down a clear set of requirements: to establish a society based on laws; to prohibit idolatry; to prohibit blasphemy; to prevent the careless taking of human life; not to tolerate adultery, incest, homosexuality, and bestiality; to prevent robbery; to avoid eating the limb torn from a living animal. These seven basic laws, applicable only to the people of the Covenant, had become the focus of a written tradition by the second century of the Common Era. The body of writings (the Tosefta) that commented on Noachic law began gradually to extend the applicability of the Noachic commands.3 Much later–not before the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries–Jewish commentators who followed Maimonides firmly maintained that gentiles also had to observe these laws. Maimonides believed that this was so not because humans could reason themselves toward the right conclusions, but rather because revelation at Sinai had codified them into the Decalogue. Maimonides assumed that non-Jewish access to the universal truths expressed here brought obligation in its train.
His footnote is useless. Other sources point me to Maimonides’s Mishneh Torah, which is not in English on the Web. See also the useful though opinioned “Comments Concerning
the Noachide Law, the Mosaic Law,
Judaism and Christianity”, http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7lawcomm.html
At the time of Josephus, Jewish law abhorred homosexuality, of course. It also seems to have treated abortion as murder (Against Apion, 2.25)
But, then, what are our laws about marriage? That law owns no other mixture of sexes but that which nature hath appointed, of a man with his wife, and that this be used only for the procreation of children. But it abhors the mixture of a male with a male; and if any one do that, death is its punishment. … The law, moreover, enjoins us to bring up all our offspring, and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing human kind; if any one, therefore, proceeds to such fornication or murder, he cannot be clean.
I was browsing through a website of ancient laws, and found evidence that the view of homosexuality as a moral offense was not confined to the Bible:
The Code of the Assura, c. 1075 BCE (Assyria)
I.20. If a man have intercourse with his brother-in-arms, they shall
turn him into a eunuch.
26. O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! If a man, by force,
commits the unnatural sin [sodomy], what is the penalty that he shall
Ahura Mazda answered: ‘Eight hundred stripes with the Aspahe-astra,
eight hundred stripes with the Sraosho-charana.’
27. O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! If a man voluntarily
commits the unnatural sin, what is the penalty for it? What is the
atonement for it? What is the cleansing from it?
Ahura Mazda answered: ‘For that deed there is nothing that can pay,
nothing that can atone, nothing that can cleanse from it; it is a
trespass for which there is no atonement, for ever and ever.’
2833. When is it so?
‘It is so if the sinner be a professor of the Religion of Mazda, or one
who has been taught in it.
‘But if he be not a professor of the Religion of Mazda, nor one who has
been taught in it, then his sin is taken from him, if he makes
confession of the Religion of Mazda and resolves never to commit again
such forbidden deeds.
29. ‘The Religion of Mazda indeed, O Spitama Zarathushtra! takes away
from him who makes confession of it the bonds of his sin; it takes away
(the sin of) breach of trust; it takes away (the sin of) murdering one
of the faithful; it takes away (the sin of) burying a corpse; it takes
away (the sin of) deeds for which there is no atonement; it takes away
the worst sin of usury; it takes away any sin that may be sinned.
30. In the same way the Religion of Mazda, O Spitama Zarathushtra!
cleanses the faithful from every evil thought, word, and deed, as a
swift-rushing mighty wind cleanses the plain.
‘So let all the deeds he doeth be henceforth good, O Zarathushtra! a
full atonement for his sin is effected by means of the Religion of
31. O Maker of the material world, thou Holy One! Who is the man that is
a Daeva? Who is he that is a worshipper of the Daevas? that is a male
paramour of the Daevas? that is a female paramour of the Daevas? that is
a wife to the Daeva34? that is as bad as a Daeva: that is in his whole
being a Daeva? Who is he that is a Daeva before he dies, and becomes one
of the unseen Daevas after death?
32. Ahura Mazda answered: ‘The man that lies with mankind as man lies
with womankind, or as woman lies with mankind, is the man that is a
Daeva; this one is the man that is a worshipper of the Daevas, that is a
male paramour of the Daevas, that is a female paramour of the Daevas,
that is a wife to the Daeva; this is the man that is as bad as a Daeva,
that is in his whole being a Daeva; this is the man that is a Daeva
before he dies, and becomes one of the unseen Daevas after death: so is
he, whether he has lain with mankind as mankind, or as womankind.’…
of Manu, c. 1500 BCE (India)
369. A damsel who pollutes (another) damsel must be fined two hundred
(panas), pay the double of her (nuptial) fee, and receive ten (lashes
with a) rod.
370. But a woman who pollutes a damsel shall instantly have (her head)
shaved or two fingers cut off, and be made to ride (through the town) on
68. Giving pain to a Brahmana (by a blow), smelling at things which
ought not to be smelt at, or at spirituous liquor, cheating, and an
unnatural offence with a man, are declared to cause the loss of caste
174. A man who has committed a bestial crime, or an unnatural crime with
a female, or has had intercourse in water, or with a menstruating woman,
shall perform a Samtapana Krikkhra.
175. A twice-born man who commits an unnatural offence with a male, or
has intercourse with a female in a cart drawn by oxen, in water, or in
the day-time, shall bathe, dressed in his clothes.
From the Baylyblog comes a story of a university administrator fired for writing a letter to a newspaper opposing homosexuality. If the Ohio Republicans have any guts, they’ll use this illegal (because Toledo is a state university) firing of a black woman in the fall election campaign. Here’s the story:
Editor in Chief of the Toledo Free Press, Michael Miller, wrote an editorial advocating sodomy and smearing those who oppose sodomy as resembling racists. This prompted University of Toledo Associate Vice President for Human Resources Crystal Dixon to submit an op-ed opposing Miller’s editorial. Dixon wrote: "As a Black woman who happens to be an alumnus of the University of Toledo’s Graduate School, an employee and business owner, I take great umbrage at the notion that those choosing the homosexual lifestyle are ‘civil rights victims.’ Here’s why. I cannot wake up tomorrow and not be a Black woman. I am genetically and biologically a Black woman and very pleased to be so as my Creator intended. Daily, thousands of homosexuals make a life decision to leave the gay lifestyle…
evidenced by the growing population of PFOX (Parents and Friends of Ex Gays) and Exodus International just to name a few. Frequently, the individuals report that the impetus to their change of heart and lifestyle was a transformative experience with God; a realization that their choice of same-sex practices wreaked havoc in their psychological and physical lives."
It’s somewhat endearing that UT President Lloyd Jacobs explains his actions with such candor. In his termination letter to Dixon, he wrote:
The public position you have taken in the Toledo Free Press is in direct contradiction to university policies and procedures as well as the core values of the strategic plan which is mission critical.
Sodomites are claiming victory.
I’ve come across a variety of items which point to the Church of England being heavily infiltrated by homosexual clergy. I became interested after reading a good book, Last Rites, by a homosexual ex-vicar who is perceptive in some ways and blind in others. It makes a good read, as he talks about the virtues of tolerance while also talking about how in the past evangelical clergy were quiet because they were afraid to talk and about how he called the police in to harass another pastor who wrote him criticizing his homosexual ways.
What surprises me most, though, is what a large fraction of the clergy and bishops are known homosexuals. Perhaps I shouldn’t be; for Anglo-Catholics, it is a chance to dress up in fancy garb and pretend to be a priest. One can be an actor, organist, or singer and get paid for it.
Damian Thompson writes:
A leading Anglican source has told me how many Church of England bishops are easily identifiable as gay. The answer is 20, he says, out of 114 diocesan and suffragan bishops….
I wanted to find out because an extraordinary article has appeared in this week’s Church of England Newspaper claiming – quite correctly – that the C of E is the most gay-friendly Church in the world, easily outstripping any other province of the Anglican Communion.
That is because its bishops routinely ignore their own official guidelines on homosexuality – and especially civil partnerships.
The article is by Christopher Morgan, a well-connected religious commentator who, many years ago, was best man at Rowan Williams’s wedding. It’s a good piece – he has done his homework – but it will shock some of the Church of England Newspaper’s evangelical readers.
It is not available free online, so let me quote the relevant passage. The background is that, according to a House of Bishops’ “pastoral statement”, a bishop is supposed to inquire into the nature of a priest’s gay relationship, to ensure that it is non-sexual, before giving a civil partnership his approval.
Morgan writes: “I do not think even one bishop has enquired into the bedroom arrangements of clergy in civil partnerships, …
Morgan goes on to talk about gay bishops in the Church, and says that George Carey told him on tape that he had ordained at least two. In fact, Dr Carey actually named the two bishops. One of the names came as no surprise, since (if my memory serves me) the bishop had, as a priest, once served as a judge for Mr Gay UK.
From My time at homo-erotic college, The Spectator Dec 7, 1996 by Oddie, William:
Some theological colleges have been traditionally more noted for sodomy than others, though it is probably not too much to say that it is normal in all of them, with the possible exception of some evangelical establishments. The most famous of all used to be St Stephen’s House, Oxford (known to its alumni as ‘Staggers’), where 20 years ago I was in training for the Anglican priesthood, and where (despite a much publicised purge carried out by the then principal, Father David Hope, now Archbishop of York) I estimated that fully two thirds were openly homosexual, many without doubt actively so.
Nevertheless, the atmosphere at Staggers in my day was certainly more discreet than the overt queening about of the pre-Hope regime, which had been exacerbated by huge quantities of gin – the Reverend Kenneth Leech, a former St Stephen’s House student (or `Staggers bag’) of this period, described the ethos of AngloCatholicism as `gin, lace and backbiting’. A hardly exaggerated portrait of Staggers at this time is to be found in A.N. Wilson’s novel Unguarded Hours (Mr Wilson is a former Staggers bag).
Father Hope had forbidden drinking (except for a pusillanimous glass of bad sherry after Sunday mass) and had thrown out the lace together with all the beautiful old Latin vestments. He had made a connection between elaborate liturgy and queening about, and there was now in force a regime of unrelieved liturgical austerity.
But the centrepiece of Father Hope’s reforms had been the supposed purge of the rampant homosexuality of previous years, which had caused such a scandal that Staggers had nearly been closed down. Things had been just as bad at Cuddesdon, the prestigious theological college known for its `old-school mitre’ -just outside Oxford, where Robert Runcie had once been principal. There was some resentment at Staggers that they and not Cuddesdon had attracted notoriety; it was rumoured that Cuddesdon had escaped public obloquy because its own scandals had been hushed up by the then Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Reverend Kenneth Woollcombe, who lived nearby.
At any rate, Father Hope’s widely bruited blitz on the queens had the desired effect, and Staggers survived ( to become a hotbed of radical feminism following women’s ordination)….
This all happened a long time ago. Things in the Church of England are much worse now and it would be almost impossible to threaten a theological college with closure on the grounds that it permitted sodomy. One college (not Anglo-Catholic) even encourages prospective students to bring their ‘partner’, male or female, to spend the weekend as part of the selection process.
The New Statesman says
…tabloid revelations in September 1994 that the then newly enthroned bishop of Durham, Michael Turnbull, who had condemned gay clergy in loving relationships, had a conviction for cottaging. An ex-monk called Sebastian Sandys outed three more bishops, including the then bishop of Edmonton, Brian Masters, at a debate at Durham University. Meanwhile, Peter Tatchell’s OutRage! issued a list of ten gay bishops who had endorsed anti-gay discrimination within the Church. They included the high-profile bishop of Southwark, Mervyn Stockwood (who has since died).
The climax of the campaign came in March 1995 when the then bishop of London, David Hope, was named Archbishop of York – the number two post in the Church of England. Under pressure from Tatchell, Hope – who had endorsed the sacking of gay clergy and backed a Children’s Society ban on gay foster parents – acknowledged that his own sexuality was a “grey area”.